Samantha Pruitt: 0:22

Hey, superstars, Polly Mertens and Sam Pruitt here. Hello Beautiful humans. Miss Pruitt, what are we talking about today? Oh girl, we are talking about boundaries.

Polly Mertens: 0:36

Good word, good word. And I just want to say when we, the conversation we were having, when we thought about this topic, was based on, you know, some coaching you were giving someone and and I was just like, as we talked about it, I got so fired up. I’m like, hell, yeah, we’re talking about that, we have so much to say. And then, as we prepped for this, it was like, oh crap, we have so much to say. So we’re going to do our best to be succinct, but kick us off. With what are they? What are boundaries? I mean, people who maybe come here know them already, but give us your definition.

Samantha Pruitt: 1:06

Yeah, and listen. This is part of being a human, so we all have boundary challenges, so let’s just embrace that out of the gate. None of us are perfect. We’re works in progress, but okay, so there’s a couple of different ways to look at boundaries. This is how I think of it, and then you’re going to share your version of it as well. Often, boundaries are a form of self preservation, but they are always a form of self investment.

Polly Mertens: 1:36

Okay, say it again. Say it again.

Samantha Pruitt: 1:38

Always boundaries are a form of self investment, so me taking care of myself but often they appear and they can also be a form of self preservation, wow.

Polly Mertens: 1:50

Nice, nice, what Okay? Anything more you want to say on that, or do you want me to give you my little?

Samantha Pruitt: 1:56

Yeah, and then the other thing I want to say about what boundaries are, so people can kind of start to embrace them for themselves. The boundary is the pause that you should take before you think, through, feel and then make a decision. It’s the pause, it’s the space that you gift yourself, that you are entitled to, by the way, so you can think and feel before you make a decision.

Polly Mertens: 2:22

Right on, right on.

Polly Mertens: 2:24

Yeah, and so you know instantaneous, like, yes, I’ll do that, or, yes, that’s okay with me. Yep, whatever you want, I get it. I get it All right. As I was thinking, okay, how would I? And I just want to say you are the boundaries boss, like being around you and seeing you and having you in my life. I’m like I love watching and the modeling that you have.

Polly Mertens: 2:43

So I was telling you before we went on air that I feel like I’m in like junior high school, a boundary school, and you’re like the graduate student or something. So it’s really great. And a lot of that comes from how many relationships you’ve been in. I mean, you have a lot of. You have a big family, right. You’ve run a lot of teams and a lot of organizations. So, hey, you’ve got stronger muscles. You’ve been at this for a while and had a lot of interactions with it. So, yeah, how I want to share that, how I perceive boundaries, is we had an episode we talked about about standards and we talked about how standards are like that relationship with yourself. You know like, what do you, what’s okay for you to do or not to do? And I think how I would liken this to boundaries is standards are there, what’s okay for you or not okay for you in relationships.

Polly Mertens: 3:34

So it’s the standards or the promises, the agreements you have with other people, and it includes yourself, like you talked about. You know, self-investment and self-preservation, and guess what? You set them or you don’t. Or you don’t you set them, or you, you know, by default, by default you don’t have them, and so you default to not having them or letting people overstep your boundaries or whatnot.

Polly Mertens: 3:58

So, and you know, I, just the coach in me, can’t help because I love metaphors, and so I was like okay, so how does that work? Like what is that? And so I liken it to if we’re going to sit down, you and I or anyone in your life, and you’re going to play a game, let’s play cards tonight, samantha. Oh, okay. So what are we going to play? Okay, we’re going to play, you know, gin rummy. We’re going to play 21,. We’re going to play poker? Oh, we’re going to play poker. Okay, do it. You know, is it five card draws at seven cards instead, you know? So it’s the, the agreements we have going in, like, okay, this is how we’re going to have this relationship. We’re playing poker. You get to see two of my cards. I’ll put those out, but you know, five of them I keep to myself whatever Right. So it’s those, those agreements, those standards, the rules of operating in this game called this relationship. So that’s a loose way, I think, of kind of leading into it.

Samantha Pruitt: 4:48

I love the term of rules of play. So in every relationship or every dynamic experience with a team or an individual, irrelevant of who they are in your life, there’s rules of play. Same kind of concept. That’s awesome.

Polly Mertens: 5:03

So why do we need that? I mean, I think it’s obvious. I’m going to just leave it on the tail of you know, you can’t really play a great game of cards if people don’t have the same rules. Like it’s just going to go off the rails, right, and that’s a little bit how, when we don’t have them. But why do you? Why is it important? What have you seen in your life? The people you’ve coached? Why is it important to have these boundaries?

Samantha Pruitt: 5:22

Yeah. Well, I want to speak to why people tend to sacrifice them, yeah, and allow them to erode in their personal lives, and what I’ve seen over and, over and over again all different dynamics of relationship and individuals are relevant of their actual circumstances is a big reason they allow them to be sacrificed, as you will is they have a really deep need to be loved, to be accepted to belong, and so we all have that.

Samantha Pruitt: 5:57

That is how beautiful we are. That’s in our human nature. Because of that deep human nature, many times people will sacrifice their boundaries because of those needs. So that’s a big reason.

Polly Mertens: 6:11

Okay, okay, and then that leads to all kinds of dysfunction. You saw that you’re going to tell us.

Samantha Pruitt: 6:16

It does. Also. You’ll see power struggles, like in business relationships and work dynamics, sometimes in families, a lot of times around money power struggles. So that’s another reason that people will allow their boundaries to be infringed upon. And then sometimes there’s just things that trigger us. Old stories, Right, and I think a lot of.

Polly Mertens: 6:36

I love the word that you just said power, the power struggle and I think something that I didn’t share but I think is important. I’ll just drop it in now and maybe we’ll come back to it is it’s power, like boundaries empower you or disempower right? Yes, muscle, having a muscle boundary right or strong muscle in building boundaries or speaking your boundaries, but also, where are you giving away your power? Right? Like you said, it’s a power struggle within relationships. So, okay, all right.

Samantha Pruitt: 7:06

Why are boundaries important? But we dig into that. So we talked about how they get eroded, yeah, so people can kind of identify with what that might be looking like for them. But why is it important? Because if you hold, if you develop those boundary muscles and then hold that strength within yourself, it is a form of self-respect. It is definitely a form of self-compassion and self-love. It shows that you have knowledge about yourself, your own value system, what you stand for, what you believe, because those actions are being played out, if you will, in these situations, your boundaries are a reflection of those things self-respect, self-love, compassion for yourself, understanding your values. That is why it is so important, so important.

Polly Mertens: 7:58

So good, tell me maybe some examples where you’ve seen that play out. Where has someone not shown themselves self-compassion or not seeing their worth and they give their worth away, or something like that. Like what’s an example in your life, a coach, coaching client or a moment, even if you’ve had, if you want, where you’re, either you recognize it or they recognize it, or you helped them recognize it, like hey.

Samantha Pruitt: 8:24

Yeah, and the reason I have an MBA in boundaries is because it has been a lifelong journey. I was not born into being boundary queen. Absolutely the opposite is true, and many people don’t have a lot of these boundary infringements and maybe are new to this space. So I want to be mindful about that. We’re meeting you wherever you’re at. But so I’ve seen a lot of examples of this and I probably have a little hypervigilance, if you will, with my own coaching clients around this particular issue because of my own experience. So I’ve definitely experienced a lot of it in personal relationships.

Samantha Pruitt: 9:04

I do have, you know, obviously it’s the family we grew up in and what those dynamics were, and then our secondary families. You know I was married young, divorced and Then remarried with stepchildren. I have grandchildren, I have my own son that I gave birth to. I have this extended family. So I have a very large family dynamic that I navigate on a regular basis and A lot of boundary challenges have been in that arena for me and me maintaining in my own personal Physical and mental health. I’ve had to really exercise these boundaries on a regular basis and I wanted to teach that to my children, my stepchildren and my grandchildren, of course. So exercising that on a regular basis in my daily work, a lot of it shows up in the work environment. So I work with business owners and business leaders, community leaders as well, and so you will see in these group, these team dynamics, that the play of boundaries is Really intense, and a lot of times people will pretend it’s not a thing, which actually makes it worse, right? So when you have a team environment this can go also be said true for a family environment All of those individuals come together with their unique life experience.

Samantha Pruitt: 10:20

Right when I walk into an office building a work team environment, or even a sports team environment, for that matter, I bring all of me with me, my old stuff, right, and everybody does so. When we start to entangle with each other, rely on each other, communicate with each other, work together and strategize and start to create challenging Experiences so we can reach our goals, the interconnected web of all of our stories starts to really either Jive or Conflict, based on many, many things that are just about the individual and, unfortunately, you will see, power is a big part of this dynamic. Right so you have people in authority positions like Bosses or coaches or whoever the boss might be that the ultimate, you know Higher authority, and then you’ll have all these layers underneath that, whether it’s a management team or whatever the thing is. So maybe we can kind of give an example to the audience about what it would look like for somebody in that environment To have their boundaries eroded and they allow that versus somebody who would stand up for their boundary. Should we maybe give that example?

Samantha Pruitt: 11:39

Yeah, how about a little role play? Role play.

Polly Mertens: 11:44

Like cure the music.

Samantha Pruitt: 11:45

Do I get to dress?

Polly Mertens: 11:46

up. We change that. Not everybody can see us, so okay, let’s do the workspace. Okay, so I will be the boss. Oh yeah, you are the boss, I’ll be the boss and you are working for me, and We’ll just, you know, lay it out. It’s simply so, all right, so hey, so I come to your desk or your office or I call you up or something.

Polly Mertens: 12:12

Hey, samantha, I know you guys have a lot going on and your, your team, right now. I know you’re under a lot of pressure. There’s a lot. You know we got this project that we’re trying to deliver on. But you know what? I just got asked by my higher ups? I’ve got this presentation I’ve got to give on Monday. I really need your help. You know it’s on this topic X and I know you know a lot about this already. Can you just, you know, squeeze in Putting a presentation together for me by Monday? I’d really appreciate it. That’d be awesome.

Samantha Pruitt: 12:39

That’s what I want to do. Look of shock and disbelief like what, yeah, and so an example of me not having a good boundary and responding to you would be, as my boss in that scenario. Absolutely, polly, I will take care of that for you. I got it.

Polly Mertens: 12:55

Great Thanks so much.

Samantha Pruitt: 12:57

And then I would walk away fuming. You pissed off Furious actually, and I would be ingesting that myself and taking that on. All those cameras in every cell of my being about how I felt Disrespected, yeah, unappreciated, overworked and truly not to see how busy I am. Yeah, yeah, don’t not being recognized for my actual role in the company because I was working on this other project with my team. So I have other people relying on me and now you’re just simply adding something else to my plate over the course of the weekend. You.

Polly Mertens: 13:37

You know, and I’m just gonna point out, like because I’ve had this pointed out to me is, when we don’t speak up like that and you and I will role play, like the way that could go, you could do that, but before we do that, before we cut to that scene, you know, what I’ve had pointed out to me is that those, all those emotions I’m actually feeling towards myself because I didn’t hold my boundaries right. So, like I’m pissed off, I’m pissed off at you, I’m pissed off at me, I’m, you know, I’m Resenting, or don’t I see? You know? Don’t you see how great I already am, or all this stuff I’m. It’s like, no, you’re not taking all of that into account for yourself. Is what I want to say to myself, right?

Samantha Pruitt: 14:14

So yes, the worst promise to break is the promise you would make to yourself.

Polly Mertens: 14:19

Yeah, amen.

Samantha Pruitt: 14:21

Okay, so that person would go forward me in that instance and I would not be great at a Producing this work for you, because I’m pissed at you right now be working with the team on the project, that’s my highest priority, and so my team would pay the price and that project would pay the price. There’s so many trickle-downs yeah, it’s my trickle-downs, yeah and people don’t do like.

Polly Mertens: 14:41

in that moment they’re like oh, yeah, please pick me.

Polly Mertens: 14:43

Yes, oh, I’ll do whatever you need you know, or we think, whatever they’re saying to themselves, right, people pleasing or Looking good or whatever it is in that moment and then the, like I said, the, the costs. You know the costs that we pay for that decision, all right, so Luckily, in this game we get to rewind and do over. Yes, please, okay, round two. Hey, samantha, I know you guys are working on that project. I know you got a big deadline. I really appreciate that’s super important to the company. But you know my higher-ups have asked me to get this presentation together by Monday. Really need your help. I know you know a lot about this topic X. Can you, you know, just squeeze that in and get that together for me on Monday? It’s so appreciated, thank you I.

Samantha Pruitt: 15:26

And I would pause and take a breath and I would say you know what, pauly, unfortunately I cannot refocus my energy on that project right now. I really am under the gun with my team on this other project. That’s my highest priority. I really want to just let you know I’m not available this weekend to work on that, but I appreciate you understanding and thanks for the offer. Okay, nice, how would you have answered that, pauly, because I think you have worked on this and you have a different technique than me.

Polly Mertens: 16:00

I have two thoughts. So I get asked a lot for like let’s call them invitations to do stuff or things or whatnot. And so, thanks to Brené Brown, she taught me one liner, which is you know, hey, do you want to come to this thing or whatever? Or hey, do you want to do this presentation? Okay and it goes. You know, I’m a no for that, but if that changes I’ll let you know.

Samantha Pruitt: 16:21

Oh, that’s so good. Okay, let’s say that again, Say that again. I love the simplicity of that and it doesn’t require what I was doing, which was strategizing a little bit about my response. So I gave myself the pause, but I did have to think through how can I spin this? Yours is simple clean, deliver the reality, Go for it.

Polly Mertens: 16:44

Yeah, and you know I think it was Brené Brown that I got that phrase from, so if it’s somebody else, forgive me. If you want to post in the comments, let us know. Maybe we’ve got it wrong, but I think it was Brené Brown who had that. As far as boundaries, and the other thing that she said is boundary bosses, like there’s no reasons. You don’t need to give reasons. You know it’s the, the you that doesn’t feel worthy or doesn’t feel like your know is a no, or what are they going to think of me?

Samantha Pruitt: 17:09

that comes up with the reasons why it’s like Well, you’re trying to strengthen the no, but do you need to?

Polly Mertens: 17:14

strengthen the no, it just be like no, can’t do that, right? So the other thing I thought about, just as you were talking actually unrehearsed was you know, maybe the idea is I can help you with some solution, maybe I can help you find someone else that can help you do that, or I can help you. You know, brainstorm other people that you could have to do. That you could put on their plate not mine, because mine’s already full. Thank you very much. That will not be coming to my plate this weekend, right?

Samantha Pruitt: 17:41

So it’s tricky. You can see that this. There’s layers to this Right. So there’s the simple, clean version that you said. Can you say that first initial script again?

Polly Mertens: 17:52

I’m a no for that, and if that changes I’ll let you know.

Samantha Pruitt: 17:54

Okay, and I love how that closes the door. I mean, they’re still standing there staring at you, but it literally closes the door for them to push you further into the dialogue. And whereas my version was hey, here’s my reasoning for no, I’m still a hard no. And then your third proposal was perhaps I can be part of the solution, helping you find someone else on the team, et cetera, et cetera. So there’s layers to this and I guess it’s good for us to really show our audiences. You know, depending on the strength of these muscles, like your number three, where you help and there’s a negotiation there feels like you need to be a very strong personality to say I can’t do it, but maybe I can be part of the solution, helping you find that person, because it keeps the door open. It keeps the door cracked a little bit, so you need to be strong enough to decide for yourself, humans, which of these feels right to you and I think that’s it.

Polly Mertens: 18:57

You know what I find in coaching and people trying to go on the internet and find exactly like Google. What do I say when someone says this? Like it’s so unique to your situation, to you, to them, the dynamics, how long have you known each other? What’s going on in your life at that moment? It’s like no, just be honest. Like yeah, I can’t do that. Like, check in with yourself. Yeah, I’m not squeezing that in this weekend. No, right, or kind of really want to help this person. You know if some ideas are coming to mind of people on the team that could do it for them instead, hey, you know, maybe I could work with you to find some other people that could do that for you or not, you know?

Polly Mertens: 19:36

like just where you are in that moment.

Polly Mertens: 19:40

Right, like, be your truth, you know, like that’s what you’re saying. It’s like be your truth with what’s self-preserving yourself first. Right, put your mask on first. Like I’m not going to sink myself this weekend into your emergency and go under with you, you know, lack of oxygen and all those things and suffering my other team and all this stuff. So I think it’s take it, you know, if right out the gate, because what my answer does is it’s no, and then it gives me the opportunity to change my mind.

Polly Mertens: 20:13

I can think on that and go oh, wow, more things have freed up this weekend. Or you know, come the end of the day or a couple of hours from now, some fires that I was putting out got put out. Oh my God, I can help that person with that, and then you could re-approach them if you really wanted to, not because you’re feeling guilty, not because you owed them anything, not because you weren’t worthy, Not because you wanted to look good, right. So you know.

Samantha Pruitt: 20:36

And we’re going to get into a little bit of how people can process that and what that might look and feel like. I want to give them one more example. Yeah, and I want to acknowledge, before we do that, that for many people there is a social cost and I do, and you as well. We work with people in leadership positions and in a lot of different dynamics, you know, and so sometimes, whether it is family or work, depending on the relationship, there can be a social cost with saying no, and for some people that might be extremely high. And so we want to again meet them where they’re at and say that, as we cut through how this could work for them and give them some real tools, that there’s varying degrees of how you can chip away at this. So don’t get your hairs up immediately and be like there’s no way I could say that to my boss or my mother. Let’s talk about a family dynamic. I said, mother, that’s maybe a perfect example of for some people.

Polly Mertens: 21:35

Yeah, that’s a big issue for raise my hand on that one Foundry alert.

Samantha Pruitt: 21:43

Foundry alert.

Polly Mertens: 21:44

Right, right. So let’s do. How about? I’m a family member of yours and I’m going to invite you to. Well, I’m not going to tell you, I’m just going to tell you, okay, so, ring, ring, hello. Hey, samantha Gosh, you know, I don’t know if you heard, but we’re having a birthday party for Jimmy this weekend. Would really love it if you and Dave could come. I know it’s a little bit less minute, but everybody’s going to be there. You know we’re really wanting to celebrate him. I know how much you appreciate him and love him and you know, getting the family, getting the band back together so you can come be a part of all this fun about it.

Samantha Pruitt: 22:23

You know, unfortunately, polly, I’m not available this weekend. I’ve got a prior commitment, but I really appreciate you thinking about me and I’ll keep you posted on when maybe I could attend a future event. Okay, that’s me having a boundary.

Polly Mertens: 22:37

Yeah.

Samantha Pruitt: 22:38

And trying to simplify without making 20 other excuses. I did say I had a prior engagement, so I strategized a little bit there and I response.

Polly Mertens: 22:46

You know there’s science behind. Well, I could go into the science. Like people will take an excuse, whatever it is. Like there’s funny science that I just remembered of how you can get, not get over on people. But you can get people to just accept your answer, just having any excuse, like just because I said so, and they’ll be like, oh okay.

Samantha Pruitt: 23:08

And I would say, over time people will adjust to this new way of you being in the world and these new muscles that you have and they will start to fraud, push, cajole, guilt, drama you less over time, but initially, when you’re just learning how to do this and developing, especially in intimate relationships, these new boundaries, it can be challenging because they will try and weasel their way into your emotional story and take advantage of that. So you could have pushed back on me and said, yeah, but you haven’t seen Jimmy in two years and blah, blah, blah and all these stories about why I should be there to see Jimmy. Right, and really you just want me to be there to do the dishes or cook the meal or whatever Get out of me, I’m on to you, lady.

Polly Mertens: 23:56

That’s all the work we got here for you. This damn birthday is not going to do itself. You know, samantha, exactly, but I like what you’re saying, guys. This really leads into the idea of you know. So I’ve been in and out of relationships and you know the person and the agreements, the promises. You know, whatever we call it, the rules of play that we set up in, let’s say, the beginning of a relationship. You know, sometimes we send our representative to the dating world and we’re like, oh, I want you to like me and oh, that’s okay with me, or we’ll do what you wanted to Play nice.

Polly Mertens: 24:31

Yeah, I like tennis and I hate tennis, you know, whatever the thing is, you know, and so this person gets to know our representative, or this false sense of boundaries, and you know commitments and persona, if you will. And then, yeah, what’s to happen is we start to, you know, slow tickers, right? So, as you, what I’m getting to, or alluding to, is, as you begin to create boundaries with someone who you’ve had poor or unhealthy boundaries with, because you’re realizing, hey, it ain’t going to change unless I change it. Right, if I don’t start setting a boundary, I’m going to the one who’s going to continue to be frustrated, I’m going to be overwhelmed, I’m going to be pissed off, I’m going to be resentful, I’m going to be whatever. You know, lack of boundaries is causing you. And when you start to, as you said, create those muscles, those agreements like setting up new agreements with people, they don’t always go so well, they don’t like that, right.

Samantha Pruitt: 25:27

No, you’re pointing out. Something that I want to just weave in is you do teach people how to treat you. As we go on about in the world, we teach people how to treat us. That’s exactly what I’m saying. Yeah, we have to take ownership in that piece. So it’s not that you can never change that. Don’t be stuck in that. So if you were seducing the new boss and trying to impress him, and you know, do her and you know, do all this extra work and whatever. Or the boyfriend or the family member, whatever. If you were trying to really be the star pupil in the room, if you will, because at some point in your life you didn’t feel your strongest, best self and so you enter the relationship under that circumstance. It doesn’t mean you can’t blow that up and change it.

Samantha Pruitt: 26:17

You can change it at any time.

Polly Mertens: 26:19

You know something you just started to say. It triggered for me the idea that what that sounded like was like oh my God, you’re digging your way out of a hole, right, like you’ve not had good boundaries, so you’ve dug yourself into an emotional hole of overwhelm, overgiving, exhausted, frustrated, resentful, whatever. And then I started to like I’m like if life had a rewind and we could go to the beginning of that relationship and I’m not talking like you know partnership you’ve had for 25 years, like you and Dave, but you know so maybe like if you’re, if you’ve been in relationships and you can create a new one, like a new, new boss, new job, new partner, whatever it is that you start to have a relationship with, don’t start having weak boundaries and you won’t have to dig yourself out of them.

Samantha Pruitt: 27:09

Yes yes.

Polly Mertens: 27:10

So if you, if you give that person the impression, the agreements, the boundaries, the words because boundaries are spoken, right, sometimes they’re touch or physical, whatever, but they’re often a spoken agreement or not, right, yeah, so that’s spoken agreement. If you speak from the beginning of a new relationship, what the boundaries are or are not, like that’s okay with me. Like we’re playing cards, yeah, no, you can’t. You can’t take my cards. Like, no, these are my card, whatever, right you? Mm-hmm, in this game of play, if you set them in the beginning, while it may be a little uncomfortable, if you’re not used to that, you’re not gonna find yourself in six months, six years, digging your way out of a hole, right, exactly, exactly, just this week alone.

Samantha Pruitt: 27:53

I can think of several circumstances. So a professional gal I’m coaching who entered a new relationship and it very quickly got hot and heavy and next thing, you know, the guy was Staying at her house doing laundry there, all of these things, and Then it blew up Because she got back in touch with her boundaries and was immediately like wow, wow, totally encroached. She had allowed those things to happen.

Samantha Pruitt: 28:20

Yeah she let it go too far and then it was literally like chopping block right. So now she has clarity. Okay, I’m gonna go back out into the dating world. These are things I will not Allow to transpire until I am ready, until they are right for me, etc. Etc.

Samantha Pruitt: 28:36

Same in the work environment, being an environment with a bunch of people trying to collaborate, trying to get stuff done, whatever, and a lot of times we’re in shared workspaces and these might seem like small infringements on your boundaries, but they are enormous and it’s like a sharing of food that happens quite a bit, a sharing of time or space. How much noise is being made in the space that we’re sharing? What is this person doing? I’m trying to focus. They’re distracting me, like all of these. Are these little micro infringements that stack and stack and stack until the walls crumble, or the opposite can be true. You can hold to your boundary in those small micro moments and Build that muscle over time, over time, over time, until you become a boundary boss in a much bigger way. So when the stakes are high, you have these great muscles that you have developed in all these other Circumstances and it does come to the table when you need them when you need.

Polly Mertens: 29:41

Yeah, and that relationship gets stronger or weaker. Right, you’re, your position of power, right? So you start out. So what I started to get is as visual as you were talking is like two people standing on the earth at the same height, their eye to eye or whatever, and you know, the stacking of a boundary is like they both step up a level like they like by the stacking of that boundary. It’s like their, their level is the same and when the boundary isn’t there, somebody takes a stack away for themselves and they start to go into the hole.

Polly Mertens: 30:09

Right, so maybe they’re still on the earth, you know, your partner, your spouse, whatever is on the earth, and then you don’t hold the boundary. So you dig a little hole in the ground and you go in it, and Then you don’t hold another boundary and then you dig a deeper hole and you go in it. Right, but setting the boundaries is like we’re both on even keel, we’re both at the same level, we’re standing on the earth together. Or, if you know, we need a new agreement, it’s like, okay, we both step up and we we match that agreement, right, and we’re both okay with it.

Samantha Pruitt: 30:36

And at any time somebody could walk away and step away, and that’s got to be okay, right well, yeah, I’m also in the process of helping to negotiate a really big business deal right now for two different parties and they’re such radically different humans, which is great and wonderful. But because over time these parties have both been guilty of letting their boundaries Leech and not adding clarity and communication and conversational things, they don’t have to agree at all. It’s not like they have to mesh worlds. They’re never going to be the same person. They’re never going to agree. They come from totally different backgrounds and experiences. But they need to respect each other and the respect would have been there if they both had Stood true to their boundaries, based on their values in this business Relationship. They would have been, even though they don’t agree at all. They would have been on that same playing field, like you were saying, around Mutual power and respect. But because it’s been eroded, we have this really rocky, unstable dynamic.

Polly Mertens: 31:43

Yeah, you know, and I was just thinking, as you were talking about that eroding and so like there’s something I was gonna say there in a relationship that I’ve been in, that I’m not in any longer, and how, like not speaking, my boundaries I thought, was, you know, something I wanted or something I wasn’t okay with, or like that wasn’t okay with me. You know, sometimes that’s how it sounds like, and so that person, I give that person permission to do that again and do that again, right, and then I become resentful or I become Contorted or I have to work around what’s okay for them and it’s not been okay for me, but I’ve never said anything. And then you know it’s just this imbalance, right, and you know you may want to blame it on all that you know taking advantage or whatever, and it’s like no, I did that.

Samantha Pruitt: 32:31

I did it’s it’s small hurts and they manifest these small hurts in a variety of ways. So they can show up as guilt, they can show up as anger, they can show up as distrust In feeling separate. Yeah, so they show up in a lot of different ways emotionally, but it’s a series of small hurts over time and Hurts hurt, you know and you know sometimes.

Polly Mertens: 32:58

So what? I’ll go back to that scenario. So I’m in a relationship, let’s say, with someone, and I Think falsely, but I’m just gonna say I think in the beginning of this relationship it would keep the relationship stronger if I didn’t say anything. Ah, like, that’s the, that’s the, that’s the Limiting belief that I was holding. Okay, that had me not speak up like, oh well, I don’t want to rock the boat, I don’t want to, you know, whatever, whatever that language sounds like, so in that moment I think being the relationship stronger, but, like you said, like that little hurt, that disempowerment, I have less power and he has kind of thing.

Samantha Pruitt: 33:36

So yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough and at the Layer underneath that. I think that will keep the relationship stronger. What you maybe were really thinking, or what some people might believe in those circumstances, is he will. They will love me more, they will invest more in me, they will trust me more. They will x, y, z, like I will be building a thing with them over time. This will make us stronger and it has the complete opposite effect.

Polly Mertens: 34:06

Yeah, it’s like a mini lie. Right, it is a lie, it’s a broken promise to yourself.

Samantha Pruitt: 34:10

Right? They don’t. They’re none the wiser.

Polly Mertens: 34:12

They have no idea what I did.

Samantha Pruitt: 34:14

Idea, by the way, yeah, no idea, yeah, so so they’re not necessarily, even though some people do Intentionally doing these things. These are these behaviors, these boundary infringements, but you’re breaking the promise to yourself.

Polly Mertens: 34:28

Yes, exactly, and I thought it was for the rally over the late and that was like well, first me, then them us, whatever. So you know what I want to insert before we move forward, and I meant to speak this a little earlier, so I just want to make sure we drop it here, is okay. I found this on the internet. I was like this is good, you know, just just part of the you were trolling on the internet.

Polly Mertens: 34:48

You never on the internet ever Nobody do we know it all right, no there’s great stuff out there, so yeah thank goodness.

Polly Mertens: 34:58

Seven. I just want to speak seven. This one was called seven types of boundaries you may need. Okay, good, so we all need boundaries that keep us safe and what you need. So there’s seven. Oops, maybe I lost the seven. Whoops, I’ve only copied six. My bad, but I’ll give me the six. And maybe there’s a seventh physical boundaries, sexual boundaries, emotional or mental boundaries, spiritual or religious, financial and material and time. I just wanted to drop that in there. We’ve talked a little bit about some of these. We haven’t gone into much about the, let’s say, sexual, but I think a lot of people’s is time and emotional, definitely physical. Okay, there’s places that spiritual, religious, financial.

Samantha Pruitt: 35:46

Some are more obvious than others.

Polly Mertens: 35:48

Yeah, I think the ones that get beat up the most or get the most exercise is time and emotion. I don’t know. Maybe you agree, do you?

Samantha Pruitt: 35:56

I would just say number seven must have been energy, because if somebody sucks my time, my emotions, et cetera, they literally draw the energy out of me, they disempower my own energy, and that is the self-defeating self-disregulation that actually transpires when all of these emotions come cascading out.

Polly Mertens: 36:22

So you’re right, you’re absolutely right. Energy power yeah, I could totally see that, and it’s us giving it over to them, right? So nobody ever takes our power. I mean, there’s some cases where people get hypnotized or cults or something like that, but most of the time, hello, it’s us giving away our power.

Samantha Pruitt: 36:40

Yeah, yeah. We’re not talking about abusive power. We’re talking about us and our own boundaries and allowing those to be eroded, dishonored.

Polly Mertens: 36:50

Yeah, or we don’t set them, so tell us about. So how do you get started? How do you start digging out of? You’ve got a relationship that’s in either small or large disrepair, dysfunction, disharmony, discontent, whatever things are bad or bad, they’re okay, but they’re not bad. But where do we start? What do we do first? How do we start to build this muscle? Where do we look?

Samantha Pruitt: 37:19

Yeah, there’s kind of two scenarios. It’s like you already are in a dynamic where there is this consistent boundary leaching, if you will, between you and the other person, and so that is like years and years or hours and hours of this environment already becoming toxic and eating away at you. And then there’s the other, which is like I’m in this new space and I’m trying to navigate how to do this. One different this time, like you talked about earlier, which is great. So let’s talk about them a little bit differently.

Samantha Pruitt: 37:50

If you’re in a current situation that already doesn’t feel good, there’s no reason to stay in that dynamic. So we wanna really empower people to understand that it doesn’t matter if you’ve been married 25 years or not. If I’m currently feeling today, at this moment with my partner, that there is a boundary infringement, I need to address it. I don’t need to write it off to. This is how it’s always been and how it’s gonna continue to be, because me at 55 is not the same person that got married 25 years ago. So it’s fine for me to evolve as a person, and I would hope that my partner would do the same thing, so you can still navigate.

Samantha Pruitt: 38:32

That moment is what I really wanna have people recognize. How would you deal with that? Well, there’s a laundry list of ways, but I would say, in that particular kind of dynamic of something that’s old and entrenched and you’re trying to unpack it and reboot and recalibrate it, that’s gonna be a hard conversation, but yet a conversation that must be had. So I would say, first you need to get clear what is the actual boundary.

Polly Mertens: 39:00

So I have and when do you know? Like, when do you like? How would you remember? We talk in coaching. It’s like awareness, so like, how do I get aware? Like that a boundary is a problem, what is that? How do I notice?

Samantha Pruitt: 39:11

Listen, you know, because it feels like shit. So, you are either feeling guilt, feeling anger, feeling sadness, feeling betrayal, feeling disrespected. You feel like crap. Don’t be lying to us. We know you don’t feel good Like.

Polly Mertens: 39:26

You know you don’t feel good, so be on and the other person is what you’re pointing at.

Samantha Pruitt: 39:30

I would say you know, so it’s like You’re blaming the other person.

Polly Mertens: 39:33

Yeah, so that person is making me feel like this, or something they’re doing, not doing, or I’m not okay with the dynamic, if you will. Yeah, so, okay, so you’re not feeling-.

Samantha Pruitt: 39:42

If they would just pick up their dirty laundry, this would all be solved. If they would just be financially responsible, this would all be solved. If they’re doing whatever, you have all these things, scenarios of how this would all go away.

Polly Mertens: 39:55

Yep, yep, yeah, cool, Okay, so you notice it and you get clear on it.

Samantha Pruitt: 39:59

Yeah, notice clarity this is all you doing work on you, by the way and then having the conversation, and the conversation doesn’t need to be full of conflict and drama right, it’s better it be not or, like you know, don’t do it in a heated moment.

Polly Mertens: 40:16

I think is what I’ve heard also.

Samantha Pruitt: 40:17

Yes, don’t do it in a heated moment. And you already have a relationship there, so there’s a lot of good in that relationship, or else you would still not be in the relationship, whether this is a parent or a spouse or a boss or a co-worker or whatever, like there’s a relationship there. So lean on what is good in that relationship and come to the table and have an honest conversation. So bring your thoughts clearly about things that are not working for you. An example would be honey, listen, this is something that’s really been bothering me. You’re lately leaving your dirty laundry on the floor. I’ll just use that as an example, because that happens in a lot of roommate situations and households.

Polly Mertens: 40:58

I mean, hello, right, I even had 50, right 50, 60, 70, all the things, and I’m here, you know. This reminds me of the I statements, so I think like using I statement yeah, exactly.

Samantha Pruitt: 41:09

Exactly. I have been noticing and this has been bothering me.

Samantha Pruitt: 41:14

It makes me feel, yeah, yes exactly this is how it’s affecting me and I would like you to be part of the solution. Can you please put your laundry in the basket or do the laundry or whatever the thing is? Can you please be part of the solution with me so you’re in this together? It’s still a relationship out of mutual respect. If you come with that energy and that really deep knowing in yourself what this means to you and what this is about for you and you convey that, I think you will be seen, heard and respected. I really do. If you come with this you’re a slob and this pisses me off and all these other things, they’re not even going to be listening.

Polly Mertens: 41:55

After the second sentence so they think fingers is not the energy to bring, or blame is not the energy to bring. It’s more. I’d like to make you aware of how something you’re doing, how it makes me feel.

Samantha Pruitt: 42:11

And if you don’t come with a solution, if this is not a solution-oriented conversation, you’re not ready to have it. So if you’re just there to say you’re a slob and your laundry is on the floor but you have no solution like I got us a laundry basket and I put it in the hallway and that’s where your dirty socks go I mean I know this sounds ridiculous, but you come with a solution and that person will be like, okay, what’s the big deal? I can do that.

Polly Mertens: 42:37

Yeah, or maybe there’s a negotiation. Or maybe there’s a negotiation, some of these things are like can we eat this, Can we not eat that? And people have different food preferences.

Samantha Pruitt: 42:47

We’ve talked about that. That’s super common in spousal relationships and parental relationships.

Polly Mertens: 42:54

You’ve got to have a whole episode on that and standing up for what you put on the plate of yourself.

Samantha Pruitt: 43:02

Yeah, I mean we’re oversimplifying this a little bit, but okay, so that’s an example that I would give.

Polly Mertens: 43:07

And I just want to say sorry, speaking from my own experience. I think you’ve got a lot of muscle years, so you may forget this, because it’s been a long time since it’s felt this way for you. But if it’s more like me and junior high school of boundaries, it’s going to feel like courage. It’s going to feel hard, it’s going to feel uncomfortable, it’s going to feel messy.

Polly Mertens: 43:34

It might not go well the first couple of times. Like, be okay with, I got to be courageous, I’ve got it. This matters and not like they’re not going to hear me. Don’t beat yourself up for saying this.

Polly Mertens: 43:52

But get your courage and get the long term Like I think you’re absolutely right Like this is a collaboration, this is a relationship, this is something that has value, this is something you want to participate in, and if so, and if that person feels the same way, they will hear you. They will absolutely hear you, and if they care about you, they will do whatever they can to help you get your win, like to help you feel better in this relationship.

Samantha Pruitt: 44:17

If it’s like, yeah, Except won’t be attached to that win, because what we want to make sure people understand is, like I’m not responsible for their response. I have no idea what’s going on in that crazy head Sitting across the table and whatever. They have all their own stories, they have all their own emotions, et cetera. Right, so I’m not going to be super attached to how they might respond to this.

Polly Mertens: 44:44

Because that could trigger me, and then you have to be okay with whatever they say. Yeah, Exactly.

Samantha Pruitt: 44:51

I have to know I did right by me. I have to know I stood by my truth, my values and I communicated clearly and concisely and compassionately. That’s what I have to know. The rest is on their side.

Polly Mertens: 45:04

It’s going to play itself out Absolutely, absolutely.

Samantha Pruitt: 45:08

Good, good, all right. So small actions, so I call them the small nose, right. So please, strengthen these muscles. People, all people, me included continue every day to strengthen the muscles, and the small little examples of that would be. I’ll give a good scenario.

Samantha Pruitt: 45:27

I go and I drink coffee every day. It’s one of my things, right, it’s what I’m into and what I appreciate is that experience in the community. So since I’ve done that for a gazillion years, every single day I’ve seen some things in the coffee shop. So an example would be somebody comes to the counter, they order their extra hot soy, vanilla, sugar-free latte, blah, blah, blah, whatever their thing is right, their little secret sauce magic drink, and that gets paid for and that gets made by the beloved barista. And then the person gets the drink and it’s not soy milk, it is full dairy, and that person tastes it, understands it’s dairy, says nothing and walks away and consumes that product which is not what they ordered, which is not what they paid for it, which is not what they wanted to put in their body that day. That is a huge boundary issue right there, and I see things like that around food consumption and other behaviors all the time with people that I work with and so.

Samantha Pruitt: 46:35

I gotta just call that one out. That hurts me to see and feel.

Polly Mertens: 46:39

And I think what that when you said at the beginning of the top of the episode about self-preservation, right, it’s like yeah, self-preservation is like I’m not gonna put that in my body, right, like that’s not okay with me, right, like I’m beholden to myself, not to them. And it’s like you can say something or not say something. Gosh, I hope you say something. This is a proprietor. You paid for this thing. Get it right. If you will. And if you don’t have the courage in that moment, by God, don’t drink it, don’t consume, you know so, but boundaries are spoken. And so in that moment it’s like, hey, just wanna bring to your attention this is what we agreed upon when I placed my order. That’s not what was delivered, and sometimes that’s how simple it can be in relationships is somebody the two of you trying to make a date and go here and there, and the person forgets, doesn’t make it whatever, and it’s like I thought we had an agreement right and so talk about it, don’t just be like Talk about it exactly.

Samantha Pruitt: 47:38

And also, besides the fact, it’s literally an assault on your own person, right, your value systems, your beliefs and who you are on the world, and it’s a way, honestly, of disrespecting yourself. So we need to unpack that. You’re missing the whole thing, which is the other opportunity for the human on the other side to see you, hear you, value you and acknowledge you. There’s another learning over there. I doubt any barista or any chef or anybody who’s putting food and beverages in front of people would want to do that to their consumer. I really don’t believe that at all. I think that they would feel horrible and there’s many situations where that’s gonna be the case. Whatever the dynamics are, I don’t think that person would want to intentionally harm or disrespect or disregard you. I really don’t believe that. But by us playing that out in our old stories, by that triggering our old baggage, it’s really an issue we’ve got to confront and we have to give the other person an opportunity as well for that growth.

Polly Mertens: 48:41

So what I’m hearing in that, what I just summarized in my mind, is, when I notice a breakdown in the relationship and the agreement, my job to speak something. Yes, right. So when I notice the breakdown, like Eve said this, she said this, they did this, whatever it’s my responsibility to speak up about it. And I just want to be clear sometimes, as a weaker practicer of boundaries than you have been through your life, maybe you don’t have the courage in that particular moment. But don’t let it fester, don’t let it go on, don’t let it repeat, especially right. So in that moment, if that breakdown you didn’t have the courage to speak up, you can late, or maybe you’re hot and bothered. Sometimes I’ll get hot and I’ll like F you Like in that moment, like how dare you right, like, how could you not show up for whatever?

Polly Mertens: 49:35

Yeah, so maybe in that moment you don’t have the courage or the emotional intelligence or the mastery of your emotions not to lay it out differently, like you don’t want to lay it out in blame and accusation and pointing fingers. But when you can regroup and rebalance and get your energy back into a calm state, then have that conversation with that person, right, like, hey, remember that time last Thursday when we were supposed to meet up and you didn’t show up, you know, or you didn’t call right or something whatever. This is how it left me feeling right. And so, if you don’t have the courage or the emotional energy, okayness, to speak intelligently or speak with compassion, what your needs are in that moment. Don’t let it fester, don’t like put it in your pocket or swallow it down. You know, build it up. But come back to that.

Samantha Pruitt: 50:28

Yeah Well, like at the top when I explained, one of my ways of you know, talking through boundaries with people is the boundary is the pause. It’s that opportunity to pause and reflect, think and feel through while you’re pausing before you make a decision. So that pause, like you’re speaking to, can be 30 seconds a minute a day a week. Right, it’s not and it doesn’t have it to be an instant resolve to you know, right away, get into the conflict and tackle the thing. It takes a long time to build that amount of strength and muscular you know, and I’ll just remind people it’s possible, yeah and in those moments when we are quote triggered or emotions are off, you know we’re hijacked.

Polly Mertens: 51:15

I call it by emotions Hijacked. Yeah, that’s good.

Polly Mertens: 51:17

So when emotions go up, there’s an inverse relationship between our mental capacity or emotional capacity. So as emotions go up, intelligence goes down. So it’s just a truth. You’ll see it now that I’ve said it to you. You can’t unsee it. So, like emotions go up, can’t unsee it Intelligence goes down. So in that moment that’s why I say like, in that moment, you may not be able to speak compassionately, constructively, on an even keel with this person to ever get your needs met. And maybe that’s where some people who have that inability to manage through those emotions don’t feel like their boundaries ever get, because they’re coming off like a screaming witch or they’re coming off, like you know, a hurt child. A hurt child, exactly, exactly.

Polly Mertens: 52:03

So, creating those pauses.

Samantha Pruitt: 52:06

Yeah, I mean yeah. We see this in our everyday work and we’re still learning right, we are still learning.

Polly Mertens: 52:14

This is our learning so far.

Samantha Pruitt: 52:16

Yeah, it’s just a process. The work is showing up and doing the work right, Seeing it for what it is and working through the process. What should we have our audience take away today?

Polly Mertens: 52:30

Well, you know, I wanted to say one thing. You messaged me and I just want to say it. I want to speak something you sent to me about people, or was it? I love this line. I was hoping we’d say it, but I just want to make sure it gets in this episode. Strong people are not always liked, but they are respected. That’s some hand of wisdom right there.

Samantha Pruitt: 52:52

Boom truth bomb Boom. Say it again, say it again. Let’s feel that.

Polly Mertens: 52:56

Yeah, so hold on. Strong people are not always liked, but they are respected and I mean respected by self and the world.

Samantha Pruitt: 53:08

This is the top priority. They like themselves Making it in the mirror and saying I respect you. You badass For sure.

Polly Mertens: 53:16

So what’s our one thing, what’s the one thing that we want to leave people with? I think you head upon it best, which is the small, the actions they give on each other and they serve your place on the earth. You’re in an equal relationship with that person. So don’t let those small opportunities turn into big ones, big holes, if you will.

Samantha Pruitt: 53:49

Build the muscles, people, and don’t forget to do the pause, for sure, give yourself that moment, give yourself that pause.

Polly Mertens: 53:58

All right. Well, let’s tell them what they need to remember as we close out.

Samantha Pruitt: 54:02

Oh my gosh. There’s so much to remember, but what the thing is that I want to remind them is remember beautiful humans. How your life feels is more important than how it looks.

Polly Mertens: 54:13

And every day is your opportunity to find your awesome.

Samantha Pruitt: 54:16

Yeah, All right lady.